Random Doom Discussion Thread

Started by Micky C, 06 December 2012, 12:40:34

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Micky C

Every mapping site should have one  :D

I was wondering, which engine is superior i.e can you do more/better stuff with. The Build engine or Doom engine? I'm not talking about about the original engines either, but EDuke32 vs whatever people consider to be the best Doom engine for modding. I'm talking about better level design, better level details, more realistic levels, and of course which engine can produce the most modern looking stuff with the right content, not necessarily all in the same project.
Wall whore.

MSandt

Doom doesn't really have anything comparable to our capability to create complex-looking structures with spritework. In fact, Doom has problems coming up with believable environments.
"Whatever their future, at the dawn of their lives, men seek a noble vision of man's nature and of life's potential." -Howard Roark

Micky C

In that case why does Doom seem to have a bigger mapping community? Are the editors easier to use or anything like that? Or is it just that Doom is a more well known and mainstream game?
Wall whore.

MSandt

No question Doom was a bigger phenomenon back in the days than Duke3D was but I don't think that explains their community's current activity level.

The explanation is in fact quite simple: Doomworld.com. Duke3D was hugely popular when Dukeworld.com was still active but once it went down, a huge part of the community went down along with it. This never happened to the Doom community: Doomworld.com still is their base of operations.
"Whatever their future, at the dawn of their lives, men seek a noble vision of man's nature and of life's potential." -Howard Roark

Merlijn

QuoteRandom Doom Discussion Thread

Don't you mean Randoom discussion thread? ;D

High Treason

Doom sucks.

But - and it's a big but¹ - credit where credit is due to anyone that has made, or even tried to make, a decent map with that engine.

¹ and I cannot lie.
[glow=black,2,300]sprite[].sectnum -1[/glow]

quakis

#6
Useful resource below amonst the quotes, with links, for anyone interested.
Engine-wise, it all down to you're needs;

Want to have a vanilla experience, outside Dosbox?
Chocolate Doom hands down. Eternity is also a good choice while offering widescreen support, limit removing and Boom compatibility.

Want to play some Multiplayer? The following ports are used;
Zandronum (Replaces Skulltag), ZDaemon & Odamex. For server browsers, check out Doomseeker or IDE

Modding and Scripting?
ZDoom or GZDoom (OpenGL, 3D Floors, etc). PrBoom+ is another alternative.

Editor;
I recommend Doombuilder 2. Has similarities to Build/Mapster, including 3D view. Also worth grabbing Slade for other aspects of wad editing/importing.

Quote from: MSandt on  06 December 2012, 12:59:40Doom doesn't really have anything comparable to our capability to create complex-looking structures with spritework. In fact, Doom has problems coming up with believable environments.

I disagree. Some random shots I took from Who Dun It (for Zandronum);




Quote from: High_Treason on  06 December 2012, 18:59:34credit where credit is due to anyone that has made, or even tried to make, a decent map with that engine.

There's plenty. Useful lists to start is the 100 Wads of All Time & Cacoawards lists, but these are barely scratching the surface. The engine works well and people produce very high quality projects on a fairly consistent basis. While Duke can be fun at times, I personally find Doom a more enjoyable game (along with Quake & Thief; especially in terms of modding)

Micky C

Do you know if they're using some kind of ROR to make those 3D looking objects (especially the sloped ones)?

And btw, has anybody in the Doom community ever made anything as large and epic looking as the Siege Breaker episode from WGRealms 2?

Stuff like this: http://www.moddb.com/games/wgrealms-2/images/wgr291
Wall whore.

quakis

#8
It pretty much is a ROR effect using sectors. The process seems a little like a mix between Duke's ROR (assigning settings) and TROR systems (for visual editing), but they work differently. I'm no expert on them, only recently decided to look into their creation since you asked about it. From what I've seen so far, it seems much less planning ahead is required compared to Eduke TROR. Here's how the 5th screen above looks in the editor; [Click!]

Large scenes can be done, but I can't recall many from the top of my head. I honestly haven't played enough Doom wads to say. Here's a screen of a large arena from a wad called DTS-T [Click Me!] [Release Thread], and a large winter-themed level called Frozen Time [Click Me Too!] [Release Thread] just imagine those arches from WGR, it's definitely possible.

Edit; This was just released today, Winter's Fury. It looks gorgeous! Check the screenshots for those 'large, epic scenes'.

Puritan

Man, The Winter Fury mod looks amazing  :)
Bitter words mean little to me. Autumn winds will blow right through me
And someday in the mist of time, when they asked me if I knew you
I'd smile and say you were a friend of mine, and the sadness would be lifted from my eyes
Oh when I'm old and wise

Loke

Quote from: quakis on  07 December 2012, 16:33:33
Edit; This was just released today, Winter's Fury. It looks gorgeous! Check the screenshots for those 'large, epic scenes'.

Been playing up to map6a, great stuff so far. Playing on the standard difficulty (the one which it claims to be "normal") and it's definitely challenging but without being annoying. It's definitely a looker too, that's for sure. Interesting story too, hope it holds up though and doesn't lose focus or delve into absolute silliness.

Micky C

Some of those scenes do look pretty good.

Quakis what's that ROR effect called? I want to read about it.
Wall whore.

quakis

#12
Quote from: Micky C on  08 December 2012, 00:31:46what's that ROR effect called? I want to read about it.

3D Floors
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/3D_floor
http://zdoom.org/wiki/3D_floor

Edit; There's also something called Linked Portals for Eternity Engine. Sounds a little like the Blood/SW ROR system, but I could be mistaken;
http://eternity.youfailit.net/index.php?title=Portal
http://eternity.youfailit.net/index.php?title=Linked_portals

Project making use of this feature from Eternity, Vaporware

Loke

Finished it, pretty damn good. The final battle was insane, probably took 50 minutes to complete. Not that the bosses were particularly hard just that they had an insane amount of health.

Micky C

Sounds like sprites should be able to take care of most of the stuff that the 3D floors can do (and TROR can take care of pretty much everything else).

I'm very interested to see what Helix is going to do when the new map format comes out with what he calls r:n redwalls or something like that, which I assume will allow us to create ROR horizontally rather than vertically which could allow much greater control for things like true 3D lifts, and I'm hoping greatly increased functionality over creating smaller TROR objects that don't require you to cover entire areas with TROR unnecessarily, such as just to make one door into one building.

This shot from that winter fury thing looks simply orgasmic:
Wall whore.