Some old maps I made...

Started by ToiletDuck64, 18 June 2013, 20:16:42

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ToiletDuck64

Here's a bunch of old DukeMatch maps of mine that I haven't actually worked on in years, and I'm only calling them "finished" because I'm not working on them and they're reasonably close to being done...they're all kind of derpy, to be honest, especially barf.map.

barf.map - "Basic Airborne Research Facility" - It's a big derpy...airplane out in the middle of the ocean or something. The biggest problem with this one is that it has too many areas with nothing going on in them, and not enough windows to the outside.

dbldeck.map - "Double Deck" - Based on the Double Deck from Mario Kart 64.
trpldeck.map - "Triple Deck" - Like dbldeck.map, but expanded with even more spritework to a third..."deck". (The items on the higher levels get a bit derpy; I at least wanted something up there.)
For both of these maps, I had to build all the "railings" on the map, as well as all the platforms and stuff above the lowest level, entirely of spritework. I couldn't use ramps like MK64 did, so I used stairways instead. (For the sake of consistency, even the lowest level has stairs, even though they're sector floors and are therefore slope-able.)
Both of these maps suffer from some sprite view-clipping problems (such as railings being visible through the floor below them); that's because, among other reasons, I don't see a good way to make the railings visible from on top of but not through the floor they're attached to, and because I don't think the sprite alignment feature was designed for something this complicated, especially all in the same area. (edit: It turns out, these problems only happen with the "classic" rendering mode, which Mapster was using at the time...)

(I'm new to this, and may be failing to do something important when posting this...just bear with me.)


CGS Download

Puritan

Hello and welcome aboard  :)
Are you gonna finish 'em?
Or just a release-as-they-are?
Bitter words mean little to me. Autumn winds will blow right through me
And someday in the mist of time, when they asked me if I knew you
I'd smile and say you were a friend of mine, and the sadness would be lifted from my eyes
Oh when I'm old and wise

ToiletDuck64

Quote from: Puritan on  18 June 2013, 22:38:05
Hello and welcome aboard  :)
Are you gonna finish 'em?
Or just a release-as-they-are?

I guess it's pretty much a release-as-they-are, because I'm not particularly interested in working on them anymore...

Micky C

Quote from: ToiletDuck64 on  19 June 2013, 06:00:52
Quote from: Puritan on  18 June 2013, 22:38:05
Hello and welcome aboard  :)
Are you gonna finish 'em?
Or just a release-as-they-are?

I guess it's pretty much a release-as-they-are, because I'm not particularly interested in working on them anymore...

Not even with True Room Over Room, or colored, dynamic, shadow-casting lights?
Wall whore.

ToiletDuck64

Quote from: Micky C on  19 June 2013, 08:09:52
Quote from: ToiletDuck64 on  19 June 2013, 06:00:52
Quote from: Puritan on  18 June 2013, 22:38:05
Hello and welcome aboard  :)
Are you gonna finish 'em?
Or just a release-as-they-are?

I guess it's pretty much a release-as-they-are, because I'm not particularly interested in working on them anymore...

Not even with True Room Over Room, or colored, dynamic, shadow-casting lights?

A lot of things you can do in the game nowadays weren't introduced until after those maps were made...to be honest, if I was going to create updated versions of the maps using stuff like that, I'd probably be better off starting over from scratch than trying to retrofit the existing maps. Besides, I don't even know how I'd make those features work in the map design...

Micky C

Well I just took a quick look at the maps, and as far as design and detailing are concerned, in terms of dukematch they're quite solid. Multiplayer was always more about the gameplay than the looks; you'd be surprised how crappy some of the more popular DM maps look compared to singleplayer maps. Honestly some of them look like a 5 year old's first map  :P but people play them anyway. So yours look relatively interesting compared to those ones.
Wall whore.

Puritan

Well, I bunged 'em to our server  :)
Bitter words mean little to me. Autumn winds will blow right through me
And someday in the mist of time, when they asked me if I knew you
I'd smile and say you were a friend of mine, and the sadness would be lifted from my eyes
Oh when I'm old and wise

Arghantyl


For me,these maps are finished.
I'm gonna test and review them;especially for barf.

Quote from: Micky C on  19 June 2013, 13:22:30
Multiplayer was always more about the gameplay than the looks; you'd be surprised how crappy some of the more popular DM maps look compared to singleplayer maps.
Experience talked there.
But sometimes gameplay is so crappy too,than i can't understand why these junk maps stayed on the hardware.
Another day,another challenge.

ToiletDuck64

#8
Well, I tried re-making the Double Deck with the TROR feature, and ran into the problem that apparently, TROR surfaces "facing" the same direction (by "same direction", I mean if the base surfaces were both floors or both ceilings before getting sloped) cause problems when visible through each other. :( Attached are a couple of proof-of-concept maps.

I guess it's back to the drawing board for re-making the Double Deck, then...

(Two things about the original maps:
- The stairways in the original maps were workarounds of sorts, for the fact that the original engine didn't support the "floating" ramps that were in Mario Kart 64.
- They don't actually require Atomic/Plutonium, and shouldn't be listed as such on the map listings; trpldeck.map requires Polymost or better because of the amount of spritework it has, though.)

(edit: had to fix one of the maps in the attached zip)

[attachment deleted by admin]

Micky C

Yeah the only renderer that works perfectly with TROR is polymer. Polymost is horrible, and classic is ok if you know what you're doing.

Maybe try posting those example maps at Duke4.net and see if one of the developers will fix this slope problem (I agree it's annoying).
Wall whore.

ToiletDuck64

#10
Well...since TROR slope abuse didn't work out (as you can see above), I tried TROR stack abuse instead, and tried to replicate the Mario Kart 64 Double Deck using this feature.

As you can see, it ended...well, badly.

To be honest, I could call the map finished if it weren't for all the graphical glitching. Does anyone know how to fix it?
The problem is, I'm not sure if the TROR feature even officially supports this kind of abuse.
(By the way, Mapster's corruptcheck feature must be herping the derp, as it seems to think nothing is wrong with the map as it stands now.)

(edit) Oh, and you know what's worse? I'm working on a "Triple Deck" expanded variation. I'm sure you can figure out how well that is going.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Micky C

That's a very admirable piece of work you've done there. Unfortunately I can't see anything you've done wrong in terms of classic TROR compatibility. On the other hand I've seen annoying visual glitches in TROR that's much simpler than what you've done in classic.
The corruption checker in mapster is more for fundamental geometry errors and not TROR visual glitches.
Wall whore.

DavoX

Nice work man! I would go insane trying to join TROR from one side to TROR From the other side, actually I don't know how to yet :P

ToiletDuck64

#13
Here's the TROR-stacking-abuse version of the Triple Deck. It's got the same graphical glitching issues as the TROR Double Deck, and issues caused by going beyond known limits of the TROR feature. (Basically, I had to stack about 11 or so TROR layers, and if I'm not mistaken the official limit is 8 before problems occur.)
Just like with the TROR Double Deck, I can't call the TROR Triple Deck "finished" either until all the graphical glitching is fixed.

A couple of things I'm wondering...
Is the graphical glitching just as bad for everyone else as it is for me?
Also, is there a renderer setting or something that fixes this (or at least makes it not as bad)?

[attachment deleted by admin]

Micky C

#14
I can guess what the problems are so I don't need to download it. The TROR limit is 8 in software mode.

If you run the map in polymer (there's a checkbox for it in the startup window), all the bugs should go away.
But then you might as well have stuck with using sloped TROR since that's probably faster to make and uses less walls (and would therefore run slightly faster).

I'm also a bit concerned that if the layers are too close together, there might be problems with weapons not hitting the player for example if the player is standing in a lower layer with the top half of his sprite sticking out in the top layer, shooting the top bit won't cause any damage, another reason to stick with the slopes (sorry this didn't occur to me before).
Wall whore.