Here's my user map

Started by Tgreyhair, 02 February 2014, 01:40:05

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Tgreyhair

Here's the user I made a while back but can't find anywhere to upload the map as a lot of the top websites e-mail addresses don't work anymore. Shows you how old Duke 3d is.  :)

I've attached the user map to this post, hope you like it and if you could let us know what you thought of the map.

The first part is a tricky puzzle getting the access card.

If the map is any good is it possible to upload to somewhere.

Many thanks

Graeme

Tgreyhair

I'm quite happy with the way this map has turned out being a beginner with the whole map making. I would think of this map more as an old map especially sticking to the old textures for the walls, floors and ceiling, even though this map is by no means old I just made it recently. The first part of the level is an unusual puzzle to say the least.  ;D


Micky C

#2
How long did you spend on the map? It's nice that you've made the effort to make it, but to put it bluntly the map is very simple, even for a pre-2000 map. It is lacking in the visual department quite a bit (things like shading and details), and the gameplay seems pretty standard. A skilled mapper could make something like it in 30 minutes or less.

Now please don't take this personally! Every mapper starts off on the weaker side of the spectrum. If you're willing to learn and accept advice and criticism I'm sure you'll improve very quickly  :)

There's a guide I've written recently discussing various aspects on what makes a map good. If you're still interesting in making more maps I'd highly recommend giving it a good read and some serious thought.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14yVNQRxyZpiA3nIqQbiPRsLR2vUwyu2810XZF8UR0bU/edit?usp=sharing

If you feel a bit put off by this post (especially if you put a lot of time into the map), then here's another guide of mine to help you map faster: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vII1ILXvNjCYhdo-As7ndoKUbeXnHW8elS4ieZWWWTw/edit?usp=sharing

I've also noticed that most, if not all the maps you did a "lets play" of were extremely old and also quite poor by today's standards, in terms of detailing at least. I highly recommend you check out some Duke user maps from the last few years (we usually get about 30 new maps a year as a rough figure), I think you'll be very impressed with how far mapping has come  :)
There's a list of the top maps rated from 100-91 on this page: http://www.scent-88.com/mapbase/maplistings.php
Wall whore.

Puritan

Thank you, Micky  ;)
I was lost for words.
Especially 'cause English is not my native language.


I can only second what Micky posted.
Get around and learn the editor and use this map as a base or something for your own improvement.
I don't think this map would be uploaded "as it is"  ;)
But get into the Build training campus and show us what you can achieve!
Don't hesitate asking for help/tricks in the forums!
Bitter words mean little to me. Autumn winds will blow right through me
And someday in the mist of time, when they asked me if I knew you
I'd smile and say you were a friend of mine, and the sadness would be lifted from my eyes
Oh when I'm old and wise

ck3D

i remember being 16 and finally getting internet access for the first time with many years of basic duke3D mapping under my belt already. i thought my maps were hot shit for some reason because the only comparison point i had was a shitty 'come get some !' compilation cd that came with 1000 shitty maps on it (the only good one was anslem, and there were a few other little gems but that was about it). i checked out dn-r out of curiosity to see if people were still working on the game and the first maps i downloaded were welcome home and red 4. reality check and humility are the only two (three ?) key words my brain can remember from the encounter

i don't mind how good or bad the map looks, it's cool to have another mapper aboard and i hope you stick around. you will get better and develop your own style - follow other people's advice and tips if you feel like you can get something from them, but remember to keep things fun and do them your way. follow Micky C's great guide, please just don't become a robotic, generic map file-churning machine like what so many new mappers of the new generation are doing, they might release complex, technically advanced user levels with details and effects and all but their stuff always looks the same to me, i like it when things are spiced up with personal style a bit (now I am not saying that 1996-styled sketchiness qualifies as style either... but you catch my drift)

Tgreyhair

Hi everyone

Some of the new maps look well detailed, Mapping sure has got a lot better during the years. My map does tend to look pre-2000 but maybe I was thinking more from a nostalgic point of view when making it.

Thanks Micky C for the guides I will give them a look and see if I can improve on things. 


I'm afraid It probably took me a few days to make it the way it was but I can understand that people spend a long time developing their maps and there are many ways I could improve. What did you think of the desert caves, I tried a few different techniques the one I liked was sometimes having to shoot the trees with the RPG to get by but sometimes you don't need the RPG as there can be a tiny space you can squeeze through.






Micky C

I'm afraid the cave is also quite basic. It needs things like shading, changes in elevation, sloped sectors (both of these points on both the floor and ceiling), not to mention decorative rock constructions. Caves also tend to be quite dark so you should make it darker and put in some light sources. Blocking the path with trees that need to be blasted though is a good idea. It's not done very much in Duke maps.

Part of my guide talks about how most new mappers tend to make large, open, low detailed areas and consist of shooting lots of enemies in the open (which is one of the lesser interesting possibilities of gameplay - my guide has big sections on making combat interesting as well as progression). And of course this is pretty much what you have done  :P

Don't be discouraged though, the fact that it's in the guide means lots of people do it so you're not alone. To be honest, for a new mapper's first map, building what you did in just a few days isn't bad  :)

Just in case you missed it though, this is the main guide that everyone uses to learn the editor and the effects: http://infosuite.duke4.net/
Wall whore.

Tgreyhair

Hi Micky, (Thanks for your input) I might work on the cave side of things a bit more.  If anyone could let me know as I was worried about one of the floor textures in the cave which looked as if the actual graphic was missing. (sorry if I'm not making much sense here)   

To be honest I'm wanting the map to be sort of pre-2000 as I'm one of the rare guys who likes the oldies. I tried a couple of the newer maps which are good don't get us wrong but it feels like a different game but by all means they look well detailed and complicated to make as I'm thinking about it from a beginners point of view. 

I like the honesty guys.


MSandt

Tons of high-quality maps were relased before the year 2000. GJHoyer was released in 1996! Warz in 1997, etc.
"Whatever their future, at the dawn of their lives, men seek a noble vision of man's nature and of life's potential." -Howard Roark

Tgreyhair

I might make it look like it's raining outside, (How do you do this guys?)

Forge

Quote from: Tgreyhair on  03 February 2014, 18:24:02
I might make it look like it's raining outside, (How do you do this guys?)
http://infosuite.duke4.net/index.php?page=ae_sprites_a4

i suggest you read the entire infosuite; especially the advanced effects and references sections
Take it down to the beach with a hammer and pound sand up your ass

Tgreyhair

Thanks Forge, yeah thunder and lightning look not bad.  :)

Tgreyhair

Hi guys, I was wondering if you guys want to do me a favor by contributing a bit to my map, free to do what you want to do with it except changing it big time. If you do make a change let me know on the forum and add the map as an attachment so someone else can do the same thing.  I'm happy with the trees as that's part of the puzzle which is to destroy the trees to pass through the cave. At the end of the level you have to kill the boss to complete the level. I was wondering if someone would make the caves more slope like as that might be one I'm going to find hard to do.

The changes I've made this time is I got it to rain when you first get outside to the desert also added a few more sectors to the start of the level. I've changed Dukes start position even though I haven't changed it physically but he should start in the mini red floor corridor with a message on the wall reading (DIE DUKE)

I've added the attachment at the bottom.   

I want to make this map ready for uploading soon.  :)

Micky C

I had a quick look. The thing is though if I were you I'd start working on a completely new map from scratch; the golden rule of mapping is never release your first map.

Check this episode; metropolitan mayhem http://www.moddb.com/mods/metropolitan-mayhem

It's an episode of maps done in the same style as the original Duke Nukem 3D, so in the most part it looks and plays like a (polished) pre-2000 episode. It's not highly detailed or anything, but it still does all the things you need like shading, good texturing, and at least a rudimentary level of details. Generally you need to aim for at least the standard of the original game before releasing maps. Compare your map to e1l5 Abyss, you'll see a HUGE difference.

If you haven't already have a look at this map, It Lives http://www.scent-88.com/reviews/I/It_lives/It_lives.php
It's generally considered the pinacle of Duke mapping in terms of details and special use of vanilla effects. I'm not saying you need to build something like this; not many can. But what I am saying is that these days nobody wants to play maps like what you've uploaded when there's a lot better looking and original maps out there. Not to mention we already have a lifetime supply of "first maps".
Now, after seeing It Lives, making a map the quality of the original episodes doesn't look so hard does it  ;)

I hate sounding like a big meanie with all the posts I'm making, but if you want to make maps that people want to play, your best bet is investing time into reading through those 3 guides linked in this thread, and into learning the editor and the effects, then making practice maps.
Wall whore.

Forge

Quote from: Tgreyhair on  04 February 2014, 01:20:29
I was wondering if someone would make the caves more slope like as that might be one I'm going to find hard to do.
i dig you're enthusiasm, but you need to figure out how to do stuff like that on your own through trial and error. It takes alot of time, practice, and dedication to get good at mapping. The people who made the great maps started at the bottom like everyone else.

Read the guides, ask us questions, but don't ask us to do it for you
Take it down to the beach with a hammer and pound sand up your ass