Here's my user map

[Tgreyhair]

I sort made it rain a tiny bit not too much so I never used the wet ground texture. I'm quite happy with the start of the level I know it might put people off but I wanted to stick with the orange red floor.

What's meant by shading anyway? (sorry I'm just a beginner, anything too complex will confuse me)

Thanks for the help and guides everyone. 

[Forge]

shading is explained on this page under the Advanced Functions section
http://infosuite.duke4.net/index.php?page=basics_sectors

keeps things from looking flat. it adds visual depth to a map by making walls darker/lighter than the ones next to it.

examples (not the standard - but simplified):

walls in the corner of a room or at the corner of a building and are set at a 90 degree right angle. make one wall 4 shades darker than the other.

walls at less than 90 degrees - like ones going around a curved hallway or around a circle shaped pillar- change the gradation between adjoining walls by 2 shades so it looks like it's getting progressively darker/lighter (and can gradate back to the original shade i.e. it starts light then gets darker as it goes around the curve - then gets lighter again) you have to think about what your sources of light/shade throwing objects would do.

[Tgreyhair]

I managed to make it more cave like. 

What do you think of the map now guys.

Try to complete the map in one go.

[Micky C]

You didn't really do anything though. You just sloped some ceilings. When I said slopes and height variation and stuff, I meant using child sectors. It still doesn't have have any shading and the  gameplay is still quite simple. If there's any challenge to it at all it's because of the number of enemies itself rather than actual challenging combat situations.

I still think you should start a new map from scratch and try to make it as good as possible. No matter how many times you try to improve this one, it's got so many fundamental issues with it across so many aspects (which may not be evident to you now, but it will be later) that to put in the amount of work to fix them all you might as well make a new map anyway. The map also has some corruptions in it because you've got walls overlapping, which must not be done.

Have a look at some of these cave segments. Look at the height variation, in both detail and layout. Look at all the small sectors which have different heights and slopes. See how dark everything is and how there are different shades everywhere, sometimes darker sometimes brighter, with light sources causing the brightness.




Now look at your map.



Like I say, you don't need to reach something quite that quality, I'm just trying to point out how you can improve (those maps are done by people who have probably been mapping for more than a decade). However your map should at least try to be the quality of the original game map e1l5 map, Abyss, which of course was released in 1996. That map is a great example of something low detail but looks great because of effective use of shading, slopes and height variation, not to mention how the gameplay takes advantage of this height variation.

A good indicator of map quality is file size. My first map was around 250kb, my second over 600kb, I could probably pump out maps over 1000kb if I wanted. And I made a small dukematch map in about 2 hours which is litterally just one smallish sized open outdoor area that's a bit over 50kb.
Now your map on the other hand is 32kb...

Until you make something starting to approach the quality of Abyss or any of the other original game maps, to be honest it's just not worth uploading and reviewing this map at this time. Like everyone is saying, try checking out some other user maps out there, and of course read through the guides, especially the one that explains how to make a good map. You may like this sort of map, but 99% of everyone else out there does not 

[Tgreyhair]

Hi MickyC

Thanks for taking the time talking about things I could improve, I know you mentioned that I should start from scratch I was hoping that wasn't going to be the case. (Has this map still got any chance?) I'm sort of comparing the map to the old user maps even though some of the old user maps did look nice and some of them not so nice. I remember trying to use the build tool in the past and not knowing what was happening so this in a way feels like an achievement being able to at least make some kind of map.       

The pictures you were showing there do in fact look more cave like especially the light sources. 

What kind of review would my map get anyway? (I don't mind getting a bad review) Is it possible to upload the user map as I don't mind getting a bad review if it must happen.     

[Puritan]

Sorry, no upload.
I've rejected more than 4000 maps so far.

[Micky C]

It would probably get a 15-20/100 or something like that. The lowest score currently on the site IIRC is around 40ish, and even then such low scoring maps are only on the site because they either a) Were revolutionary or otherwise solid, memorable maps at the time they were released, or b ) by an author who later went on to make fantastic maps, and his/her older/crappy maps were also uploaded so that people can see how they progressed over the years. If people played these kinds of maps, we'd be getting a hundred of them a month.

Like you said, you only spent a few days on it. There's really not much content in the map at all; people have abandoned much better maps with a lot more time invested in them to work on other stuff. The map seems more like a test map where you learnt to use the editor than an actual playable map, and I'd work on a few more test maps trying to develop skills in different areas before even attempting a proper map.

[Puritan]

Micky got it spot on 


A good example of how a mapper improves is Ray Tracer.
It's only two years between the bad map " Lara Crofts house" and great maps such as Maia and Taygeta.

[Tgreyhair]

I'll need to have a look at Lara crofts house as I used to play the tomb raider games back in the day. That's understandable Puritan, I guess it was more like a test map hmmm but I don't want the time and effort going to waste. I wonder if there is anywhere else I could upload to if anyone wants to take it on that it. 

Thanks guys for the honestly and look forward to playing some of your maps. 

[Forge]

don't be discouraged
you may have put quite a bit of work into it from your perspective and you're very proud of it. Nothing wrong with that.
the reality of it is that this map is still very simplistic and there are thousands of basic quicky maps out there.

this level can be "rescued", but there are two factors going against it:
it will take just as much work to improve this map to the point where it has enough quality, to set it apart from the other thousands of amateur maps, as it would to make a new map from scratch
other than the basic layout the level would no longer be recognizable compared to the state it's in now