[RELEASE] Siebenpolis

[ck3D]

Get the map and see a screenshot here : http://forums.duke4.net/topic/7735-release-siebenpolis/

"A city at night with mostly vertical action.

The player is supplied with a jetpack and a credit of 50 refills near the beginning of the map.

Use that gift in order to explore the buildings everywhere in the city, and find 8 switches to unlock your way to the exit.

You will also have to find 2 keycards (both yellow).

There is no set order to unlock anything, as a result the map is very unlinear.

Also the entire map has been given palette #7 for a 'black and white' effect. Fellow mapper Taivo Maripuu originally came up with this idea a while back, in an old multiplayer map of his called 'Seven'. I always loved the look of it ; now I made it mine and pushed it even further (this map is single player and like 20 times bigger).

One last thing to be noted about this map is that its designing process was 100% different from everything I had made before. Instead of designing every single room and area one by one, only to then improvise the next one 'on the go', this time I chose to draw the entire outline of the map at once (as the very first thing I did to it), which resulted in a huge empty area that I then had to fill up with textures and details in order to make it look like something. A process that took me over a year (on and off - I don't get to play games and make levels that often). Having that huge area to work on as a basic canvas made it a lot easier for me to implement the vertical action, and design an interconnected layout.

I wish you a pleasant experience.

Security cameras and hints are thrown everywhere in the map in case you get stuck. If you are missing a key, look for writings on the walls near their respective locks."


CGS - review/download

[Puritan]

Woah!
Firing up Duke as we speak.

[Forge]

nice.

i may need a couple days before i can get to it.

[ck3D]

No problem, for the record i will update the map tomorrow morning with a few last minute, atmosphere related effects that i really wanted to include, yet slipped my mind at the last second for some reason

[Merlijn]

Always great to see another ck3D map! I've played through it once, but I'll play it again after you've posted the update.

As for now, I really like the look, the concept and the layout of the map. Visually, those broken sections with light bleeding through the ceiling were an absolute highlight and among the coolest stuff I've seen in a duke-map, it looks very cinematic.

The concept of the gameplay reminded me of the last bobsp level (the underwater level), but this one with the jetpacks works a bit better IMO. Having one central place to refuel your jetpack and having to keep an eye on your jetpack fuel at all times added a great extra dimension to the gameplay. You deserve a lot credit for putting in such a feature.

Also love the size of the gameplay area.

I did find some elements of the gameplay a bit tedious though, the enemies are tougher to spot thanks to the pallete value. Same goes for finding ammo and weapons. And I didn't like the fact that every button triggered a whole lot of respawns in the hub-area. It got a bit repetitive towards the end. It also has the same problem as Saneks 'bridge between 2 Islands': you spend a lot of time sniping enemies with your pistol from great distances.

I would have preferred a more moody, adventurous type of atmosphere and gameplay, which would have fit the theme of the map better. But that's a personal preference.

Anyway, I'll reserve final judgement until I've played the updated version.

[ck3D]

http://forums.duke4.net/topic/7735-release-siebenpolis/page__gopid__209705#entry209705

the map has now been updated, and is available in its final form here : http://forums.duke4.net/topic/7735-release-siebenpolis/
it is now ready to be reviewed.

sorry to the 36 folks who had downloaded the map already. please get it again as numerous fixes have been thrown in as well as quite a few atmosphere-related effects !

i am in a rush to reply to everyone individually right now, i will get to that later, but thank you for the feedback thus far !

[Forge]

i haven't played the first one so my perspective won't be influenced.
Lots of new stuff, but this one is next in my que followed by Sanek's.

I'm kinda dick-ish. People that make release threads here get priority, everything else can wait until i get around to it.

[MSandt]

Sorry but I didn't really like the map at all. Even without all the annoying respawns it'd have still felt like playing Borderlands, i.e., aimless.

http://msdn.duke4.net/hotsiebenpolis.php

[Forge]

It was okay. Nice concept. But..........

it took me quite a long time to find the one room tucked way back by the park that was off the main street. That pal made it hard to see open windows unless you are flying right by them at the perfect height. I probably went by that particular window three or four times (and around the whole map) before finally passing by at just the right elevation to see it.

The switch to open the garage door that allowed access to the gated rooftop was even worse because of the pal. It took me forever to find it. Another item i must have went by about twenty times before seeing it nestled up above normal eye level.

Those two things really killed the fun for me. I was enjoying it until it became tedious.

[ck3D]

sorry you guys found so many flaws to the map. the pal 7 look seems to confuse the hell out of a lot of people, be it for asthetical or practical reasons. hopefully some people will still happen to like it as much as i do, but so far it seems to be a miss in terms of critical reception.

Mikko : the only thing I would maybe consider unfair in your review is the mention about the invisible protector drone. it really was just a glitch, probably related to some type of engine bug (MetHy and I have been discussing the how's and the why's of it in the release thread on duke4), that was eventually fixed in the final, 'reviewable' version of the release. it seems to occur in duke 3D whenever you use a respawn sprite to spawn a 'newbeastjump' actor instead of a normal newbeast (which i just learned the hard way). not really what i would call a proper feature that would be specific to the map. hence why i am not sure it is appropriate to report it in a review, especially now that it's been fixed in the actual level itself. but in the end such concerns don't really matter much to me, so it's your call.

Forge : while implementing the gameplay in this map, i tried really hard to learn about my past mistakes, i always had in the back of my mind how my former levels such as anorak city or bummed out had confused the hell out of people as far as gameplay is concerned, due to the seeming randomness of the button placement combined with a large layout. so this time around, i tried to provide a lot more hints. hence the viewscreen at the start, the messages on the wall next to the key locks and other stuff. two of the windows (including the one you had trouble with) have a large 'UP' sign right on the wall below them, as an attempt to catch the player's attention (and in most other instances, there are stacks of stuff at the bottom of the windows, bins etc... or snipers / respawns). also, that switch in the destroyed building i tried to make a lot more obvious with the wiring, there are rather large wire sprites that come from the door and lead you straight to the switch sprite. i thought that would make the 'puzzle' a lot easier (granted a switch in the same location with no hint whatsoever would have been quite mean), maybe this particular wire sprite is overused in duke maps and therefore whenever people see it, it no longer really catches their attention as they tend to assume that it's been placed for solely decorative reasons ? (i personally use that sprite in my maps a lot in order to connect switches to their respective doors, but not many people seem to get that)

anyway thanks for giving this map a try.

Merlijn : thanks for the detailed feedback as well. i am glad you liked the partially destroyed building. i was worried that it was going to look too empty for a minute, but several other players have been telling me that they thought it looked cool, so i guess it really didn't need any more detailing. i have been using that type of lighting 'effects' in some of my other maps before, usually in sewers to simulate light stemming from manholes in the ceiling and in other, various types of underground sections, but i guess this map is where it looks the best, especially due to the palette.

as for me i enjoy firefights in duke that are of the same type as those that i implemented in this map, against numerous baddies and i don't mind waves of respawns or going back and forth between the pistol and more powerful weapons in order to shoot some monsters from distance. i don't know if it can really be seen in the final product, but i really tried to focus on enemy placement in this level (some of which are straight tributes to certain E1 maps, even the last rooftop itself is a tribute to hollywood holocaust). it was a lot of fun to implement as well due to the amount of options the scale of the gameplay area, the layout and all those cars and crates offered. hopefully some players will get to appreciate it.

[Puritan]

Just a note about the newbeast / drone thing.
Respawning newbeasts has always been a buggy experience in Duke.
For example: Respawn a 'newbeast stayput' caused the newbeast to be invisible. ( dunno if that is fixed though...)

[MSandt]

Mikko : the only thing I would maybe consider unfair in your review is the mention about the invisible protector drone. it really was just a glitch, probably related to some type of engine bug (MetHy and I have been discussing the how's and the why's of it in the release thread on duke4), that was eventually fixed in the final, 'reviewable' version of the release. it seems to occur in duke 3D whenever you use a respawn sprite to spawn a 'newbeastjump' actor instead of a normal newbeast (which i just learned the hard way). not really what i would call a proper feature that would be specific to the map. hence why i am not sure it is appropriate to report it in a review, especially now that it's been fixed in the actual level itself. but in the end such concerns don't really matter much to me, so it's your call.

I just thought it was a curious little incident worth mentioning, certainly the one thing that I will remember years from now when someone mentions the map.

Were there more of them or just one, btw? Asking because after encountering the little fucker in that elevator, I found it harassing me again when I went to get another jetpack refill, and then all the way down to the start of the map where I went to consult the viewscreen. At this point I had to dnkroz to get rid of it.

Like Forge, I got lost once too but it was the button right next to the winking lady screen near the start. I was getting slightly pissed off at this point due to all the monsters out in the open (I had neither the ammo to deal with them nor enough health to keep flying across the area in search of the button) so I dnshowmapped to see where the last button was.

as for me i enjoy firefights in duke that are of the same type as those that i implemented in this map, against numerous baddies and i don't mind waves of respawns or going back and forth between the pistol and more powerful weapons in order to shoot some monsters from distance. i don't know if it can really be seen in the final product, but i really tried to focus on enemy placement in this level (some of which are straight tributes to certain E1 maps, even the last rooftop itself is a tribute to hollywood holocaust). it was a lot of fun to implement as well due to the amount of options the scale of the gameplay area, the layout and all those cars and crates offered. hopefully some players will get to appreciate it.

The problem is that many of the enemies out there have hitscan weapons (i.e., simulated rather than real projectiles that hit as soon as they're fired) which makes the battles unfair due to the lack of cover and visibility.

[methy]

Hitscan enemies have a much harder time to hit you when you're far away in DN3D, it wasn't really a problem. On the contrary even, if you have pistol ammo, you have huge advantage, because contrary to enemies' weapons, the pistol remains deadly accurate from any distance if you use autoaim.

About the wire in the destroyed building, it's what made me find the switch. Basically after having been inside the building, I saw the part of the top of the building (the one with a switch, a door, a huge crack and fences all around), so I looked at the map and realized the door had to be openable, so I went back inside, saw the wire and followed it. The hint worked really well.
The only hint I didn't really get was that IIRC a screen shows vents; and also in one of the buildings you see vents leading to somewhere but it's barred. So I was assuming I had to get into a vent somehow to reach that part, while it wasn't the case at all.

Personally I didn't mind the exploration and having to find that one last switch, even though it took me 15mins to find it (went around the entire map) I didn't mind it.

[ck3D]

Mikko : there is an 'up' sign next to that one last window as well (i expected that room to be a one of the trickiest one to find, hence the need of a hint), but i guess that, just like the other one Forge was mentioning, it is easy to miss. once you get the first jetpack from that first room and blow up that wall using the provided pipebomb, you can then jump onto that ventilation shaft with the atomic health on top - just above of that atomic health is the 'up' sign. if the player looks up even just slightly from there, or uses the jetpack they just acquired, they should spot the room right away, or at least i tried to make it that way. theoritically, it should be the first room with a switch one should visit. or if anything, if you miss it the first time around, you might spot it again later by accident while going for a jetpack refill, since it is located in a location you are bound to regularly come back to.

about the tiny little motherfucker there was just one, a newbeast that was supposed to respawn in the player's back in front of that elevator door as an element of surprise (hence the +30 in the doorway in order not to make the surprise too detrimental to the player's health). i originally had a newbeastjump actor spawn instead of a regular newbeast actor. however, apparently, and as puritan just pointed out, whenever you respawn a newbeastjump or a newbeaststayput it seems to spawn as tiny as fuck, wall-aligned and one-sided, which makes it an absolute bitch to kill. i fixed that bug in the revision by having a normal newbeast actor spawn instead, although i'd rather have a jumping one instead, for a better effect.

[methy]

The room Forge had a hard time to find is also the one that took me 15mins and had me go around the entire map btw.

A kind of 'hint' that could have worked and been fun would be a viewscreen showing the view from inside the room, through the window, looking at some unreachable building; so then the player would just have to find the unreachable building and look into the right direction.