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Duke Nukem Boards => Duke 3D Modifications => Topic started by: DeeperThought on February 15, 2016, 10:49:48 PM

Title: Duke Forces
Post by: DeeperThought on February 15, 2016, 10:49:48 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/Bcmfo2j.jpg)

And here's a movie of the WIP TC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8SooZEpFJo

Hey. So...I'm trying to decide how to distribute Duke Forces. It's got lots of textures, sprites and sounds from Dark Forces, also some fan made stuff and custom stuff. It's got lots of music tracks from Jedi Outcast (which themselves were edits of movie music). Also a few textures and models from Outcast/Academy.

The issue here is that Star Wars is a big deal IP owned by Disney. If I put this out there as a "free game" then I'm afraid it will get a cease and desist. My gut tells me that if I release it as a mod of Duke 3D (requiring players to have Duke 3D installed) then that will dramatically shrink the user base and it will fly under the radar. Then again, it may fly under the radar in any case.

Could I release it on Mod DB and get away with it? What about other sites/methods of distribution? Any insights would be appreciated.

By the way, I made this CGS account so that I could get in touch with some old Dukers who don't hang out at duke4.net

EDIT: I forgot to mention, my planned initial release date is May the 4th
Title: Re: Duke Forces
Post by: Puritan on February 16, 2016, 08:13:50 AM
First of all, the video is looking good.
I've turned down hosting of TC's containing material with copyrights issues a few times.
I have to follow our national laws in these matters since the server is located domestically.

What does the admins over at Mod DB have to say about these issues?
I'm not familiar with US laws I'm afraid.

Also on December 31'st the rights of Duke Nukem shifted hands from 3DRealms to Gearbox.
Now, Gearbox is tougher to deal with than 3DRealms for sure.

Title: Re: Duke Forces
Post by: DeeperThought on February 16, 2016, 09:20:56 AM
First of all, the video is looking good.
I've turned down hosting of TC's containing material with copyrights issues a few times.
I have to follow our national laws in these matters since the server is located domestically.

That's okay, I'm not interested in having it hosted here anyway.

What does the admins over at Mod DB have to say about these issues?
I'm not familiar with US laws I'm afraid.

What they would say about it, and whether the mod could get hosted there, are two different questions. If asked, I'm sure that admins would uphold the law. However, I have seen lots of projects hosted on MD that violate copyright. It's my belief that they pretend not to know about violations in cases where they can reasonably expect no consequences (e.g. a mod for an old game that has content stolen from another old game). My worry is that Star Wars is a huge, hot property right now, so even though Duke Forces is using assets from old Star Wars games, it is still Star Wars.

Also on December 31'st the rights of Duke Nukem shifted hands from 3DRealms to Gearbox.
Now, Gearbox is tougher to deal with than 3DRealms for sure.

Yeah, but I'm not aware of Gearbox ever expressing concern over Duke 3D mods.
Title: Re: Duke Forces
Post by: Forge on February 16, 2016, 04:36:13 PM
Duke Forces is using assets from old Star Wars games, it is still Star Wars.
Who owns the rights to those old star wars games and assets you're using?
That's who I'd be concerned about. If it isn't Disney, then I wouldn't worry.
(i'm pretty sure you already knew that)
Title: Re: Duke Forces
Post by: MSandt on February 16, 2016, 06:12:38 PM
You could market it as a "standalone Duke3D mod"; that way it shouldn't attract any unwanted attention like a "free Star Wars game" might, and most gamers would still instantly notice that they don't need a copy of Duke3D to play it. There are many Star Wars mods on ModDB & such and this would be kinda like them, i.e., a mod, not a game.
Title: Re: Duke Forces
Post by: DeeperThought on February 16, 2016, 08:20:55 PM
Duke Forces is using assets from old Star Wars games, it is still Star Wars.
Who owns the rights to those old star wars games and assets you're using?
That's who I'd be concerned about. If it isn't Disney, then I wouldn't worry.
(i'm pretty sure you already knew that)

LucasArts developed Dark Forces, and LucasArts was acquired by Disney and shut down in 2013. So, it would seem that Disney owns those rights? Raven software developed Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy. I guess Raven still owns them but released the source code in 2013 following Disney's shutdown of LucasArts. I'm concerned about the music. I'm using tracks from Outcast which are edited together from the original movie music.

@Mikko: Maybe I'll try your suggestion at some point, but for the first release it will most likely be a not-standalone Duke mod. All the Duke stuff is in there if mappers want to use it for now.
Title: Re: Duke Forces
Post by: Forge on February 17, 2016, 04:15:03 PM
Well tread lightly because Disney is insane about protecting their characters & i.p.
they'd just as soon sue you for infringement as send you a c&d.

on the other side Gearbox now has the Duke Nukem i.p. & they can be just as stupid

a stand alone game at this time is pretty risky
Title: Re: Duke Forces
Post by: DeeperThought on February 17, 2016, 08:02:54 PM
Well tread lightly because Disney is insane about protecting their characters & i.p.
they'd just as soon sue you for infringement as send you a c&d.

on the other side Gearbox now has the Duke Nukem i.p. & they can be just as stupid

a stand alone game at this time is pretty risky

That sounds scary, but I can't find any evidence that either company has ever gone straight into lawsuit without a C&D first in a case even remotely like this. It's one thing if you are selling fake Disney merchandise, but this would be a free game mod. AFAIK there is no precedent for suing someone for a free game mod without even warning them first. Still, I see your point: these are not friendly IP owners.
Title: Re: Duke Forces
Post by: Forge on February 17, 2016, 09:17:02 PM
That sounds scary, but I can't find any evidence that either company has ever gone straight into lawsuit without a C&D first in a case even remotely like this. It's one thing if you are selling fake Disney merchandise, but this would be a free game mod. AFAIK there is no precedent for suing someone for a free game mod without even warning them first. Still, I see your point: these are not friendly IP owners.
In cases like this you'd probably get a c&d since you're not trying to sell it for profit.
Gearbox has yet to go after anybody making Duke3D mods, but on the Disney side you're dealing with a corporation that had the copyright law changed just so they could keep ownership of Mickey Mouse and the other characters. Who knows how anal they'll get.

http://priceonomics.com/how-mickey-mouse-evades-the-public-domain/

Steamboat Willie is due to become public domain Jan. 1st 2019, (45 years after it was originally suppose to - but Disney had the law changed), so don't count on it.

http://copyright.nova.edu/mickey-public-domain/
Title: Re: Duke Forces
Post by: DeeperThought on February 18, 2016, 09:47:35 AM
I don't want to incur the wrath of the mouse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW6oe3WOYfY

In other news, I made a Mod DB page: http://www.moddb.com/mods/duke-forces