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Duke Nukem Boards => Workbench: Classic Duke 3D => 1 Week / 1638 CBP private board => Topic started by: Micky C on 17 February 2012, 04:45:26

Title: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 17 February 2012, 04:45:26
While the other thread is more to do with the current progress of the map, this thread looks towards the future.

For example, before we get too far in, we could start thinking about how the parts are going to tie together and what the focus of each section is.

E.g Norvak's section is probably going to be the hub, and I have a feeling he's got something planned with that central spiral, which has a room inside (could contain a nuke button designed to destroy the city in the event of an emergency, or maybe a teleport to earth).

With my section, the rotating segments could potentially be used for a puzzle, or hiding objects or rooms (possibly other people's sections), or just have some clever respawn triggers to have some surprising gameplay. It would be really sweet if the player would have to end up jumping out the window to land in the pool (I added an atomic health to the top of a nearby light pole).

Of course these are all just ideas, and this is just an ideas thread, but hopefully over the course of development it can help with the overall cohesion and help add purpose to everybody's parts.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: MikeNorvak on 17 February 2012, 20:06:04
Well, the only advice I could suggest. Is making the map in concentric circles around the metropolis core, using the highway at the left to make another and bigger part of the city, or the left waterfall to expand the city also, so I expect mappers don't close possibilities and try to think on open spaces everywhere, for example it would be cool to have an artificial sea at the shore of the station, parks, a sewage system, stores, highways, futuristic movable cars and so on, the idea Micky suggest sounds really good, but not necessarily my part needs to be the center of the city, there could be a biggest zone for that matter....
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 17 February 2012, 22:58:31
Looking at the list of mappers, I don't see anybody that's going to "override" Mike's portion from being the hub, so I'm sure everything's going to spur off from it.

I also noticed nobody (only two people so far) have added gameplay elements to the map. Is that something that's to be added later after everything is built? Seems like that'd be twice as much work as necessary rather than mappers putting in stuff now and fine tuning it later.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: quakis on 17 February 2012, 23:55:53
I'll definitely be adding gameplay to my part while working on it. Can be adjusted according to the overall picture but I'd rather ensure the bulk there is ready.

But that brings up a question out of interest; Pigcops. Is anyone against using them in this map?
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: MikeNorvak on 18 February 2012, 05:59:24
I just didn't add any gameplay, becouse I didn't know if my part were gonna be a hub zone or just another part.

@ Quakis: We could keep the space level tradition, but since this is a city map, I don't see any problem on using them, we could use weird pals though.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: High Treason on 18 February 2012, 12:36:44
If your city is the hub, this does leave me with some confusion of how to end my part, as theoretically, it will have to lead back to the city at the end.

My section has turned out rather simple thus far as I have almost run out of walls now.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 18 February 2012, 12:51:09
Quote from: High_Treason on  18 February 2012, 12:36:44
If your city is the hub, this does leave me with some confusion of how to end my part, as theoretically, it will have to lead back to the city at the end.

Why? It could dead end and have a key or an important switch. Somebody else could build off of it or link their section to yours. Etc....

Alternately, Mike's section doesn't have to be the hub, or the only hub
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: MikeNorvak on 18 February 2012, 20:24:56
I agree with Forge, I really want to see biggest "outdoor" areas of the city with that slybox on it. It looks cool.

Well, it would be cool also if teh map expands this way:

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: High Treason on 19 February 2012, 00:55:36
The layout makes sense now. I see you talked about a beach, that could be where both the highway and the end of my section lead i.e. my section leads a sewer out, the highway goes to the beack and thus, back to the city. Just putting it out there to give people ideas. But as it's midnight, I'm probably rambling.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Mister Sinister on 19 February 2012, 08:13:25
I've been thinking about expanding the waterfall and making some sort of dam which will be connected to other parts of the city with a road near it.What do youthink about it?
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: MikeNorvak on 19 February 2012, 08:20:57
Yeah that sounds good, do anything you want ;)
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Merlijn on 21 February 2012, 23:11:03
So, after looking at the level in its current state, I tried to think of a logical progression and flow for the player. The following feels the most logical to me:

1.The player starts in Micky C's bar (downstairs) but the way out is blocked by a forcefield. He has to go the upper room and solve a basic puzzle to get the forcefield down.

2.Then, the player enters Mikes big outdoor part, shoots some baddies and makes his way to Mister Sinisters dam.

3. Maarten and I will start building where Mister Sinister stopped. Our parts will add a giant loop to the map, and will eventually lead back into Mikes part. Somewhere along the way, the player has done something to unlock the sewer section (or has gained explosive weapons to blow up the manhole - which means the sewer entrance has to be blocked by a sprite that can be blown up)

4.The player descents into the sewer section. The builder that comes after me can continue where High treason stopped.. Possibly leading into a new section of the city?

What do you guys think?

Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 22 February 2012, 01:02:22
makes sense, but you can flip it where the player progresses through Mike's part to High T's sewer and continues through there to another section that loops back to Mike's part and opens up M. Sinister's dam area.

just depends on where you want to start and what you want to make (i.e. you can add some cool hi-tech stuff, beach caves, or whatever after the dam and loop it back to Mike's hub. Maarten can add his alien-esque area to the end of the sewer (which is a perfect place for it) and loop it back to Mike's hub.

There's still Quakis & Supertanker left on the list. If SuperT is still indisposed, I may amp myself up enough to add a little to it somewhere while the team waits for him to become available.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: High Treason on 22 February 2012, 01:09:53
Looking back, I should probably have not built a sewer, it seems to have caused problems for everybody :(
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 22 February 2012, 01:17:47
Why not. It fits the map & theme, it can easily be put into the map progression in several different scenarios. It can be a dead end with a key or an important switch, it can loop back to Mike's hub, it can be added onto and taken in a different direction, it can lead to the end of the map/boss fight.

what's the regret?
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: High Treason on 22 February 2012, 01:23:32
I'm not regretting it, I just can't help but wonder if I made everyone's job harder than it otherwise would have been - then again, that just gives them more reason to show off their skills. I'm kinda looking forward to seeing how it is made to connect up.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Maarten on 22 February 2012, 01:34:41
Quote from: Forge on  22 February 2012, 01:02:22
just depends on where you want to start and what you want to make (i.e. you can add some cool hi-tech stuff, beach caves, or whatever after the dam and loop it back to Mike's hub. Maarten can add his alien-esque area to the end of the sewer (which is a perfect place for it) and loop it back to Mike's hub.

Sounds cool, but I guess this time I'll take a step back from my usual alien stuff & stick more to the space/city theme which we have now :) Maybe I can't resist to add some alien stuf..but..we'll see :)

Oh, and the sewer should stay, it's nice.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 22 February 2012, 02:02:01
The puzzle in my section should be to disable forcefields on the windows to allow the player to jump out into the pool below :D

And the good thing about HT's sewer is that it can be relocated to anywhere in the map if needed. The problem I see with it is that there are two keypads with key cards in the immediate vicinity which you need to progress. So if you make it a dead end with a third key card... well you get the picture.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: MikeNorvak on 22 February 2012, 03:02:23
Well I think those keycards don't need to be into the acid containers, but somewhere in the map, and that has more sense since occording to the note no one knows what Norvak did with it. :D

I was thinking that it would be cool if we include several references from sci fi.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 22 February 2012, 06:25:13
I already poked fun at the logos for Tiberius Station and Polaris outpost, not to mention the AMC TC. It would be very hard to make references to things outside the Duke universe without making it look shoehorned-in.

Upon further thought about my part being first; when I was making it I always had it pictured that the player would have several decent weapons by the time he got there, so that there could be some intense fights in the apartment. Also, I'm not sure the downstairs 'bar' is detailed enough to has as a starting point; it's basically a square area with some posters and coloured lighting. It can be a starting point if necessary, but we should keep our options open.

And is it going to be the case that we're not going to have a full 10 mappers, so that we might get extra walls at the end?
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Maarten on 22 February 2012, 11:03:34
Quote from: Micky C on  22 February 2012, 06:25:13
And is it going to be the case that we're not going to have a full 10 mappers, so that we might get extra walls at the end?

In that case, after everyone made their part, we can take the time to polish this map till we're satisfied with it :)
I'm planning to make more city+metro, and connect my part with Mike's...since in my eyes, it's the "center" of the map, and will be good to have "one map" feeling, instead of "a CBP with obviously different parts" :)
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Mister Sinister on 22 February 2012, 12:40:53
Quote from: MikeNorvak on  22 February 2012, 03:02:23I was thinking that it would be cool if we include several references from sci fi.
Hey, what if I'll replace that giant sign with my "new album" with something referencing to some sci-fi movie?
Something like "3001: A Space Odyssey" or "The Day the Moon Stood Still".  :)
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 22 February 2012, 12:40:59
Quote from: Maarten on  22 February 2012, 01:34:41
...I guess this time I'll take a step back from my usual alien stuff & stick more to the space/city theme which we have now :) ....

Noooooooooooo!  My brain is melting...   

;D
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Maarten on 22 February 2012, 14:40:28
Quote from: Forge on  22 February 2012, 12:40:59
Quote from: Maarten on  22 February 2012, 01:34:41
...I guess this time I'll take a step back from my usual alien stuff & stick more to the space/city theme which we have now :) ....

Noooooooooooo!  My brain is melting...   

;D

Oh, in that case I'll create a small part with a sign, saying "special alien part for Forge" xD
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 11 March 2012, 00:20:46
Omg this map's going to be epic  8)

Now that the map is definitely getting some form to it, we need to settle on a start and end while we still have one or two mappers left to give us leeway.

I know it's been discussed that my section should be the start, the more I think about it the more I agree. Having the player dance around with enemies appearing from behind the rotating sections a few times then jumping out the window all the way into the pool with explosions coming out of the apartment is an epic set piece to get people's juices going for the rest of the map.

The way I see it there will probably be two arcs:
High Treason's sewer arc potentially with Captain Awesome, Forge and Quakis.
Mister Sinister's arc with Marteen and Merjlin's parts.

Both of these would probably loop back to Norvak's dome. This means that the player will need something from both sections in order to finish the map (any ideas?)

The best ending for the map I can think of is the player entering the spire in the middle of the dome, where a sign says something like "in case of city compromise by aliens, destruct city" or something along those lines, so the player will flick a switch making explosions occur repeatedly at the windows thickly enough to make it look like the entire city is experiencing explosions. Then idk a nuke button will appear or something.

Any comments?  The ending is a bit cheesy and could probably use some work. And I'm not a big fan of the player requiring key cards to get to the exit since we've already used so many key cards.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Merlijn on 11 March 2012, 01:08:00
That sound like a good idea.

Here's an idea for the arcs: first, the player has to go through Mister Sinister, Maarten and my arc to unlock the other one.
This could be as simple as getting some pipebombs to blow up the manhole to access the sewer (once the player enters the dam area, he can't go back to the HUB area thanks to the big waterfall, so he has to complete the arc anyway once he obtained explosive weaponry).

Inside the sewer + potential new parts, the player will get a jetpack. He can use this to fly back into the city and reach a doorway in the central spire only reachable with a jetpack.

If we do this, we will have to guide the player a bit with some helpful, well placed viewscreens, otherwise a lot of people will probably get stuck.

Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 11 March 2012, 01:34:48
That could work very nicely. I initially wanted the player to have the choice of which arc they want to play first, but I guess it's too much effort to make the map work well both ways. It's probably hard enough making the gameplay flow with one playable path.

The jetpack idea makes me want to put a big battlelord here (either from the start, which should make things interesting, or spawn in after both arcs) and make him guard a keycard which the player needs to get into the spire.

(http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/Untitled-2.png)

I wish we could have a more dynamic ending then just have explosions happen at the windows. This map deserves one of those endings where the player gets to fly away from the city in a ship or something. Perhaps we can still have the explosions but then have the player teleport to a ship that's flying away in some kind of scripted sequence.

Edit: another thing I wanted to point out is that in the classic renderer there's some texture glitches underneath where I'm pointing due to the large angle of some of the slopes.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: High Treason on 11 March 2012, 04:29:31
If needed, I could probably remove the keycards from my section and replace them with some kind of switch puzzle.

I haven't had a cance to look at the latest version of the map so I don't know if it's already been done, but to link my section to everything else, some of my remaining walls could be used to shade the exit tunnel that blows up to black and silently teleport the player to somewhere else with a similar shaded-to-black tunnel.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Merlijn on 11 March 2012, 16:29:23
Hmm, I was mistaken, you can get back to the HUB area from Mister sinister part.. So if we want to prevent the player from going back, something must be done (increase the height of the wall, one sided invisible barrier.. etc)

Giving the player a choise of which arc they want to play first could also work though.. In that case they could obtain a jetpack in the sewer part and in the other one a... keycard? And both would be needed to enter the spire.

A scripted ending sequence would be very cool and definately doable.. Imperium had a similar scripted sequence at the end of Last change part 2 (I used the dukeplus sleeper effect for that sequence, but I guess it can also easily be done without it).
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 12 March 2012, 00:45:36
Well, after working with Paul B who was really pushing the non-linearity in Parkade.map, I'd rather just stick with something more linear as a break  :P

I just played through the map (after adding a touch of gameplay to my section) and it took me a bit over 13 minutes. So I predict that when this is finished, it should take 20, maybe 25 for a first-timer minutes to finish, which IMO is an ideal size for a map.

I used God mode, but I stuck with the weapons that were already in the map, and it's playable, which is good. However the weapon pickups will probably have to be reworked to better take into account the preceding and succeeding sections.

So this is a draft of the weapon pickup order I've come up with, but I'm open to criticism.
Pistol - starting
Shotgun, freeze thrower - Micky C's appartment.
Chaingun, Pipe bombs - Mister Sinister's section.
RPG - Maarten's section
Devestator, shrinker - somewhere after High Treason's section.

Edit @ High Treason: We'll see about your keycard/switch puzzle thing depending on how the final layout goes. Hopefully it'll just be Norvak's dome, my appartment, and the two arcs.

The second arc doesn't have to loop around back in an obvious way because it looks like that arc will contain the jetpack needed to get the final keycard being guarded by the high-up battlelord which grants access to the central spire.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: MikeNorvak on 13 March 2012, 03:50:47
Cool, definitely a escaping scripted sequence would be great. The central spire could be accessible from the underwater lower part of the pool.
I'll check the latest iteration later.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 28 March 2012, 23:36:54
I don't know what Quakis and WG are planning, but it looks so far that Mister Sinister, Maarten, & Merlijn's loop is going to be first in progression -  to get explosives to open up the sewer hole to the second loop. Then High Treason, Captain Awesome, & Forge's loop is going to be second to get the jet pack to get to Quakis' area.

speculation seems to have rarely paid off so far. I can only look forward to what the last two mappers come up with


Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Mister Sinister on 30 March 2012, 11:11:31
It means that devastator must be removed from the roof of my dam and replaced with something else.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 30 March 2012, 15:03:31
I thought your area was going to get modified so the player couldn't get back to the hub?


Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Mister Sinister on 30 March 2012, 15:10:00
Well maybe, but if my area is the beginning of the first loop there's no need in devastator.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 30 March 2012, 15:34:32
Up to the results of the beta-test, but I see no reason why it should be removed. Ammo for it or some pipe bombs can be added to Merlijn's section with a view screen showing the manhole cover (so they know not to waste them all)
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 28 April 2012, 16:18:25
I don't want to clog up the map progression thread with a bunch of images, so I posted here:

Classic mode hub area walk-about

00 - missed texture on back of TV
01 - floor not raising, player can get stuck
02 - visual anomaly with elevator at the top floor
03 - visual anomaly with elevator while riding it
04 - visual anomaly while looking out of apartment window at the hub area
05 - player can jump out the window to reach for that ledge - gets squished
06 - missed texture
07 - sector standing in is tagged as water
08 - visual anomaly with this sector
09 - same as 08, seen from the underside
10 - visual anomaly with elevator as seen from outside
11 - don't forget to put in a tagged manhole cover
12 - player can get to the grass sector, but gets squished if walked onto instead of jumped on
13 - aside from misaligned texture, player can get squished in this corner
15 - different angle on 08
16 - missed texture
17 - disappearing waterfalls (both sides of tunnel)
20 - player gets squished if jumps on top of this junction box

visual anomalies (02,03,04,08,09,15) are reduced or gone when using polymer. If this is to be released for classic mode, then there's alot of work needed to fix the visual glitches.

screenshots removed
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: MikeNorvak on 30 April 2012, 22:30:45
I've been thinking seriously about this, and I think the best solution is release it as a Polymer map with a script in a bat file to turn the dynamic lights off, still a playable map with 8-bit with some glitches, I just don't like the way it looks (and works) on 8-Bit, the best framerate I got was with polymer also (. I'm a bit upset about the performance of this map, that TROR thing was a bad idea to implement, but now that it is, why not take advantage of it?

Also somebody knows a console command to deactivate polymer lights in game? I need to try the map out without lights :/

I think I'll finish my polishing stage today, and some tweaks on gameplay...
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: High Treason on 01 May 2012, 02:55:48
I don't believe you can do it from the command line... It may be possible to zip the file and load an autoexec.cfg that has the desired effect but it isn't something I have ever attempted so I don't know if that would work.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 01 May 2012, 04:21:55
R_pr_lighting 0
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 05 May 2012, 22:24:24
I played the map a little today. There's several things that need to be fixed, but I think the biggest bug I found was a six button puzzle

the puzzle works fine, but imo six buttons is over the top and bugs me

a few game killers:
the power junction box outside merlijns bar on the way to the hub (across from the blue locked barrier) still kills the player when jumped on top of.

in the hub area above the water tunnel leading to Mister Sinister's area are two tunnels that water is falling from and a huge sign (the winking woman I think). The player can fly into them after getting the jetpack, but can't fly back out because the walls are one-way blocking. (i know this is to keep the player from getting back into the hub from this direction, but maybe the one-way blocking walls should be moved to the other end of the tunnel)

I don't know if the top of the spire is supposed to be symmetrical or not, but its odd shape is apparent when flying around it with a jetpack.

there's something odd about one of the atomic healths in Mister Sinister's secret area (the atomic closest to the dam - left one if looking over the wall at them from the platform), it makes all the other sprites in that area appear with black boxes around them. the effect goes away after it's been picked up

most everything else is alignment or sizing issues
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Mister Sinister on 06 May 2012, 08:40:13
Quotethe puzzle works fine, but imo six buttons is over the top and bugs me
But there is actually a viewscreen with a clue for puzzle. Those numbers - 2,3,5 - are the buttons that you need to press. But I don't think it's a problem to make for example 4 buttons, I won't mind.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 06 May 2012, 11:17:39
The water tunnel things you're talking about are in the top layer and having nothing to do with the blocking of the big tunnel in the bottom layer, they can be made blocking/unblocking individually.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 06 May 2012, 13:54:42
Quote from: Mister Sinister on  06 May 2012, 08:40:13
Quotethe puzzle works fine, but imo six buttons is over the top and bugs me
But there is actually a viewscreen with a clue for puzzle. Those numbers - 2,3,5 - are the buttons that you need to press. But I don't think it's a problem to make for example 4 buttons, I won't mind.

If there's a clue, then leave it. I didn't see the clue so that's on me.

Quote from: Micky C on  06 May 2012, 11:17:39
The water tunnel things you're talking about are in the top layer and having nothing to do with the blocking of the big tunnel in the bottom layer, they can be made blocking/unblocking individually.

I never worked with tror so I did not know that, I just applied old world logic to the problem.

edit: imo the fix should be to make those three areas above the tunnel blocked to keep the player from entering them. especially the two waterfall tunnels; they taper in to narrow points that might squish the player.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: quakis on 20 May 2012, 17:32:52
Possible flow for mine and William's part - I have a good vision how this can play out if done like this. The switch which activates the tower is inside the police/security station and then there's a bit of interesting backtracking from my part toward the tower. Check the image below to see what I'm going for. I'd like to know ASAP if we should go with this idea before my polishing stage is over so I can do what I can to make it happen.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/deathquakis/th_cbp8finalarea.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/deathquakis/cbp8finalarea.jpg)
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 20 May 2012, 19:02:51
that looks pretty logical

question:

is it going to affect gameplay/flow if the player backtracks through WG's section instead of exiting the police/security station through the gate that is opened after activating the tower switch?
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: quakis on 20 May 2012, 19:09:50
I'd most likely close access to William's part off by that point, perhaps the alien's attempt at redirecting Duke to their heavier assault after activating the switch.

Reposting the image since we're on a new page;

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/deathquakis/th_cbp8finalarea.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/deathquakis/cbp8finalarea.jpg)
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 20 May 2012, 19:15:20
Quote from: quakis on  20 May 2012, 19:09:50
I'd most likely close access to William's part off by that point

this
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 21 May 2012, 01:22:10
That sounds like a good idea, lets go with that.

I think we can make the door at the base of the tower on the top right, behind which is a lift on the right side of the red line across the tower in the pic, then you see the windows and the fake nuke button. You need to cross over to the other side of the tower to hit it, then explosions start outside, while a forcefield or door activates behind you making you stay on that side of the tower. Then a few seconds later, the section of the tower you're on starts moving down, and goes right down until you're below the city in a high tech control room. The door to that is also in the diagram. This should give you a view of the underside of the city (if we have enough walls) and is where you can take a shuttle in an escape sequence to end the map.

So right elevator takes you up, left elevator takes you far down.

(http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/plan.png)
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: quakis on 21 May 2012, 01:26:29
Right, I,ll go ahead with my idea then and just hope William reads the this.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 29 May 2012, 09:50:49
This is very basic just for the idea, but I was thinking that the underside of the city could be some giant circular thing, and you can ride a two-way train out from under it. At first I thought we needed flat ceiling sectors for the two way train, but then I realized we're using TROR and we can make the ceilings whatever we want and make the train go anywhere.

Thoughts?

(http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/mapster322012-05-2917-14-56-91.jpg)
(http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/mapster322012-05-2917-15-17-77.jpg)
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Merlijn on 29 May 2012, 17:52:23
Sounds and looks like a good idea, but I think we should also make this map as bug-free for classic as possible as well.. So don't make the TROR too fancy please ;) I'd hate to not be able to play the final product.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 01 June 2012, 02:25:30
looks good. the more detailed the better, so throw all the left over resources at it you can
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 01 June 2012, 05:07:52
How do we actually end the level when the two way train stops? It'd be kind of lame to just have the player press the nuke button.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: MikeNorvak on 01 June 2012, 19:14:40
You could put a timed activator locked in the end sector. IIRC an activator locked can make dormant end sectors, (theorically) you could trigger the end sector in the same way as the door opens in E2L8 or even with the same method of delayed spawns used by Llyr Wyn Jones, the real trouble here is: How are you gonna tag the end sector if it is already tagged as two-way train?...
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: MikeNorvak on 01 June 2012, 20:24:25
Definitely we need some help from Lezing  :-X
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: High Treason on 01 June 2012, 22:35:43
Lezing...  That made me think. I wonder how feasible it would be to make a two-way train with sprites, then move those sprites out of the train sector (setting their sectnum back to the one for the train) thus seemingly allowing the train to travel to a new sector tagged as an end level sector?

Sheesh, if that works, I want credit for the idea, I have never tried it, but if it DID work, immagine the possibilities, a two way train could travel over multiple sectors that way!

Edit: In practise, the idea sorta works, I currently have a workaround idea for the player being unable to move, the train would sit behind the visible sprite train with a one-way-blocking wall, disallowing the player from stepping back, my only worry is I haven't tested this and I have a nasty feeling that the player would go right through. However, the idea may still be worth playing with and if it doesn't work I can at least say I found a way of making interesting new visuals.

The attached map is an example of how the train affects sprites that are outside of it.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 02 June 2012, 00:53:32
The player stands still while everything else moves away from the player; thus giving the impression that they are flying away?

Maybe some fancy conveyor work and sync some surrounding sectors to move with the player? (Though something would have to be done to keep the player from running against the direction of movement)
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 02 June 2012, 13:27:46
What about instead of a two way train with the player moving sideways, we make it so the escape pod actually moves downwards, that way we can bury an SE 7 below the floor, and when we lower the floor and duke's waist hits the SE height he gets teleported to a black end level sector. If this is doable, itll also mean we dot have to worry about the external city walls on the sides which we wouldn't be able to realistically recreate.
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Forge on 02 June 2012, 15:45:22
That would work if you put the drop chute in position for players using classic mode to be able to see the bottom of the station while they descend (due to the limited angle of up/down sight using that mode)

A little creative construction could make the inside of an "elevator/lift" look like an escape pod

makes me think of the scene from the first star wars movie when the two robots use the escape pod to drop down to that desert planet (i know all the names, i'm just too lazy and drugged to think long enough to come up with them)
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: Micky C on 25 June 2012, 04:48:11
What can be done to increase classic renderer compatibility? It's already 95% compatible. The only glitches I can see are the sprite walls clipping into my lift as you go up to the apartment, the switches in Mister Sinister's section (probably easily fixed) and a texture warp at some angles when looking at two of the surfaces in the hub due to their large slope (don't think it can be fixed but it's minor anyway).

My experience with classic renderer mapping is minimal. But does anyone else have any ideas of how to fix these bugs?
Title: Re: ideas, gameplay
Post by: quakis on 25 June 2012, 13:06:58
Quote from: Micky C on  25 June 2012, 04:48:11The only glitches I can see are the sprite walls clipping into my lift as you go up to the apartment

I think I've managed to fix this one, but I'm not making any definite promises.